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Is DH going to be any good?re

Mega-machineMega-machine Posts: 2
edited April 2010 in General
so far Yates' has proven to be an inept director. His films lack structure, flow, continuity, emotion, excitement, maturity and style. It makes me wonder how after a great film like GOF they would hand the series over to someone who has no experience with big-budget films. GOF was exciting, dark, funny, balanced, emotional and powerful. There was a sense of dread in the film (something completely missing in HBP) the Death Eaters were actual villains they seemed dangerous had the world cup whereas they are so tame in the later movies they don't even attempt to pose a threat to the kids in the Ministry, they kill no one on the bridge, they lure Harry into the reeds and do nothing and then at the end they stand around and look "scary". Yates even turned Voldemort into a joke, he went from being a dangerous Nazi-like leader to being a typical cartoonish joke sticking his tongue out and yelling.

Yates had no vision the Ministry battle was ridiculously scaled down that scene was a dream for a filmaker, kids running from these dangerous criminals, spells flying around, people wounded, attacking brains, a room full of clocks, one like our solar system ect. And in the film it became a brief chase in the prophecy room and then a 30 second battle between the order and DE. The cave was jumpy and inchorent it didn't flow, there was zero atmosphere and the inferi were horrible, they weren't even realistic looking. Then he wrecked Dracos storyline and made the most unengaging ending to hte series yet. The DE walk out of Hogwarts? You have to be joking, where was the chaos when Dumbledore died? Why were those four even there? To leer? Havng the battle would have shown how dangerous they were fighting and almost killing students, the demise of the headmaster changed everything Yates made it look unimportant.

And now they've given him the final the most impressive, the biggest, darkest book in the series...and my hope is at nought. No doubt the 7 Potters will be about 2 minutes long filled with choppy, quick cut editing, poor visuals and Columbus level violence. George losing an ear? I doubt there will be blood on his face and it'll be treated as a minor inconvience. My real worry in the final battle. I worry what this man might do....

Comments

  • BraveheartBraveheart Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭✭
    You're not the only one feeling that way. His films tend to lack atmosphere, and the Death Eaters were really tame "Scooby-Doo" like villains, the ones who are only there to growl and attempt to be menacing without actually doing anything. The HBP climax would be most film makers dreams, that had the most potential so far as far as intensity and emotion and sweeping epic-ness is concerned, but Yates rushed it by -- from the start of the cave to the end of the scene in front of Hagrid's hut can't have been any longer than 15 minutes, Dumbledore's death was shot from such a random angle, it was almost as though they wanted it toned down, almost as though they wanted it to be PG in America (think about all the violent things in the movie, most of them will be shot in a weird way, or there will be some factor that mitigates the violence or intensity). Yates's films do lack a sense of engagement, they are just very very passive experiences. The wand lighting scene relied heavily on the blaring soundtrack to try and force emotion from the audience (incidentally, why does Dumbledore look so peaceful and unharmed having just plummeted hundreds of feet?). And they do lack maturity or much sense of darkness. The film built up towards the climax and didn't deliver one. It was shocking.

    Given that DH has the most action and darkness throughout the whole series, I'm really not holding my breath. His action sequences all seem to be dull and uninspired, and his films lack any sense of threat. And what is with the complete lack of conclusion? Both OOTP and HBP ended a couple of minutes after the climax ended, no exposition, no real conclusion. Unless Yates really gets his act together, DH is looking to be underwhelming yet again.
  • MicroFXMicroFX Posts: 555 ✭✭
    Trying to think back to my initial reaction after watching HBP - Fenrir Greyback, who looked awesome and menacing, was completely misused, he had most of his lines cut and the middle attack on the burrow could of really established his character but whenever such chances presented themselves, the advantage was not taken by yates. To a degree we can blame the screenwriter Kloves as well, but really it is up to the director to creatively interpret it himself and if necessary change it around.
  • DH action will be underwhelming for three reasons: 1. Mark Day, his editing wrecks all atmosphere it is so jumpy and incoherent. Why do WB still keept him? 2. Yates, he hasn't been bold enough I don't think he's going to change now, 3. Kloves, reading the HBP script and honestly...his action scenes are awful, They sound like something from a video game.
  • blackvenomblackvenom Posts: 3,257
    Actually I love HBP so much. The cinematography and art direction were Oscar-worthy, the visual effects were pretty extraordinary, the score was exceptionally dark and fitting to most scenes, the acting was the best we had seen in any HP film and the characters were 3-dimensional.
    I must say that what I loved was the entire foreboding atmosphere from the beginning to the end of the film. It was a film, as was the book, to build-up the things for the grand finale in Deathly Hallows. Even though it seemed to reach a great climax with fantastic action etc. this didn't turn out to be the case. I have no problem with the omission of the little skirmish in the Hogwarts corridors after Dumbledore's death. I thought that what we saw was an extremely emotional and a r t i s t i c finale. Yes, artistic. It was like a painting. It was a much quieter and character-driven climax than any time before and the exceptional art direction, cinematography and visual effects benefited that. It was such an ominous and emotionally dynamic climax; the foreboding and sombre atmosphere, combined with the terrific grey and matte painting-like landscapes and the brilliant acting performances-especially from Michael Gambon, Alan Rickman and Tom Felton-really added to the atmosphere. I don't know, I really loved the climax.

    My only problems with HBP were:
    -some repetitions of the score. I was tired of listening to that indifferent 'The Book' track. Like 3 times in the film?
    -some moments of weird editing. I must confess the editing was LOADS better than in Golbet of Fire and Order of the Phoenix, but there were still few problems.
    -The fact that it gave the impression that it was building up to a great finale. Actually, it was building up to the final film. Not a bad thing, but it gave this impression.
    -The Half-Blood Prince subplot, even if it wasn't really interesting and important in the book, was misused. Even though it was because of the book Harry succeded in Potions and got the memory from Slughorn leading to the revelation of the Horcruxes mystery, I felt there should have been more references to make it a better ending when Snape reveals he's the Prince.


    Well, that's all. I thought the romance was handled beautifully, it was NOT overwhelming at all, the dark parts were very artsy and sophisticated and deep, the acting surpassed everything I had seen before in the series, and every technical aspect was greatly improved, reaching the level of excellence, in my opinion.


    So I have faith in David Yates. =)
  • BraveheartBraveheart Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭✭
    I do agree with a couple of your points, but I don't think the CGI was anything out of the ordinary. And I also think Dumbledore's death was pretty badly handled. There was no sense of shock at his death, everyone just gathered and didn't really seem at all surprised. When Cedric died, we had Fleur screaming and everyone was acting really shocked, but when Dumbledore died, everyone acted almost as though they had been expecting it. Nobody actually looks surprised to see DUMBLEDORE dead. In the book it was this monumental event, everybody was appalled and couldn't believe it, Hagrid was wailing with grief, and in the movie, that sense of shock that such a great wizard like Dumbledore could be killed was totally absent (Hagrid's shock was sorely missed) and the whole flow of the scene gave it this passive feel. It just felt really off.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,605 ✭✭
    GOF WAS TERRIBLE

    no winky
    nio crouch freaking out
    no shinx
    no weasleys at prviet drive
    i colud go on and on

    easily the WORST HP film
    THE COON HAS RETURNED
    dream_loudly (now known as THE COON)
    protecting HPF from trolls and other assorted douchebags since 2010


    "such a beautiful place...to be with friends. Dobby is happy..... to be with his friend......Harry Potter"


    :(




    screw u XDMorsmordreXD
  • BraveheartBraveheart Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah but most of the things you mention weren't necessary at all, how was the sphinx in any way important to the plot? Quite happy are you for Yates to cut things like Hagrid and McGonagall being attacked? Like a proper explanation of the prophecy? Quite happy to let him skirt over the Horcruxes with little to no exposition or explanation?

    The same goes for the Weasleys at Privet Drive. No need for it. It would slow down the momentum and also leave less time for much more important things. That's why they don't include all this unnecessary stuff, because they don't want to have to rush all the important stuff like the graveyard scene ect. Otherwise you'd be complaining that everything was rushed.

    Plus the sphinx was one of the most pointless things in the maze, and it's riddle was pretty bad. It would have taken up two minutes unnecessarily. But seeing as you are only interested in insignificant unimportant points being included and not bothered about big important plot points being rushed and shunned to one side to compensate for all the time spent on unnecessary filler stuff, I'm glad you aren't making the movies.

    Some IMPORTANT PLOT POINTS were left out of GOF though, like Crouch's story of how he got out of Azkaban, like an explanation of Priori Incantatem. They are the important things missed out, most of the stuff you mentioned were left out because they were unnecessary to the overall plot.

    OOTP was pretty bad. That was the worst. It missed out so much, most importantly an explanation of the prophecy, how Voldemort knew about it, why he went after Harry as a child ect. and also of course Hagrid and McGonagall being attacked, because the reason Harry didn't go to an Order member when he had the Sirius vision was that none of them were left at the school (other than Snape whom he had forgotten about). With McGongall still there it seemed pretty stupid that he wouldn't go and alert her.

    There are lots more things I would have liked to see in OOTP, but as I said these would be unimportant and won't complain about them being cut.
  • RichardRichard Posts: 48,595 mod
    He better make DH the best in the series or Ill be pissed.To make it great it should have a mixture of the POA,GOF,HBP sort of feeling and alot of action.He better not delete all the action parts,in fact he should add more wand dueling parts.Not the way he did with OOTP,I want there to be people dying in slow motion you know what I mean?I want the major deaths in slow motion and a sad track playing.These films deserve the best and I expect that.HBP was good but it wasnt perfect and I want DH to be more than that.
  • blackvenomblackvenom Posts: 3,257
    Well, they've described DH1 as a film full of thrilling sequences and adrenaline. And they've said DH2 will be the definition of epic and will be operatic and elegiac. Both descriptions seem quite great, IMO.
    And they've said they want to make both films the best Harry Potter films. I don't think we should worry. Not at all.


    HBP is a superior film to all the others because everything is improved. From the acting to the art direction. Everything is better.
    GoF is a very entertaining film, yes. It's fun, yes. There are 5 great action set-pieces, there's lots of romance and great horror and sadness in the end. It has everything a mind-blowing blockbuster needs. And it was a pretty mind-blowing film. But it lacked so much in terms of its script. Actually, the plot and the characters were handled so badly, it was atrocious. If it weren't for the thrill of the Tournament, the Yule Ball and Voldemort's return, I would completely despise the rest of it. The acting was weird and bad, at times. The characterization was terrible (Dumbledore anyone?). The editing was so bad that it didn't help the plot, at all. The explanation of the Priori Incantantem and the lack of a powerful aftermath-as it was in the book-were pretty bad, as well. But, it remains the most entertaining film of the series. It has great visuals, a great score, a much tighter and more powerful story than before, great set-pieces, a brilliant introduction to the romantic side of the story (all Yule Ball scenes were extremely funny and cute, without a doubt) and a great sense of utter danger and foreboding. Ralph Fiennes was exceptional, IMO. He truly stole the show.
    But this film has more problems than HBP.

    Now, OotP, that was just meh. Not a terrible film, it was decent. But I think that it lacked so much, in every single aspect.
    Only positives:
    -better acting. Yes the acting was good. And the characterization was far more accurate than before.
    Umbridge, Luna, Sirius, Lucius, Bellatrix and Neville stole the show. The performances were great, IMO. Emma and Dan improved, as well as Gambon. Fiennes was decent in his 4-5 minute screentime.
    -A good climax. It had problems but it was quite breathtaking. Great visuals.
    -Nice dark and hopeless atmosphere. Everything was cold, dark and sombre. As was the tone of the book.

    Now, that's all.
    Don't get me started on the script, which completely f*cked up the story. Or the extremely boring camera work, the TERRIBLE blue filter in every single film. It was as if they were boycotting their own film's photography. Everything was mediocre or bad. The montages, the extremely short scenes, the lack of depth in the story's plotlines, the fact that they underused almost all characters except Harry and Umbridge, etc.etc.
    That's a mediocre film. And to be honest with you, kudos to David Yates (I think that Kloves is a better screenwriter than Goldenberg anyway) who made HBP so much better. So, logically, the two DH films will be even better and the fact that the book is being made into 2 films, with means that the story will be handled much better, is quite positive. With great visuals, cinematography (Serra), score (Desplat), a much richer and tighter script for both films and some great acting, both films will turn out to be the best of the series.
  • GodricGryffindorGodricGryffindor Posts: 5,757 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, I agree with some aspects you people have said, but other things are just off.
    @Mega-Machine: You are just looking at the negative aspects of Yates' films. I mean there were some very good things in there too, just like Blackvenom mentioned. It's okay with me if you hate these films so much, but how come OOTP was J.K. Rowling's favortite, even Dan Radcliffe's favorite?
    I personally think that every movie is excellent, but in different ways. Every movie has something special, and it may change your opinion of OOTP, if you watch the UE, with +54 mins of extra footage. : )

    I mean some of you people are stating that DH will suck A$$, without even seeing a proper trailer, i mean we got the BLU-RAY sneek peak, but come on. The film crew can improve in their flaws, everyone can, and do you think that WARNER BROTHERS will let their gold mine, their biggest franchise, the greatest franchise, to close terribly??????
    I personally don't, and besides they made Deathly Hallows 2 films, so you all movie - haters, that can't stand to see a removed scene or even a dialoge can be all happy.

    I mean it's not so hard. (THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID)
    image
  • timelesstimeless Posts: 72
    edited April 2010
    I agree with people about GOF, to me without the set pieces the movie has very little going for it in terms of plot and character. The Crouch storyline was handled very poorly and was paper-thin at times, the intricate twists and hints Rowling gave were gone. The film was a blockbuster no doubt, it had exciting action and a thrilling climax but everything in-between the tournament is really, very "meh". The first 15-20 minutes are extremely rushed as scenes just fly by unfortunately destroying the atmosphere and giving the opening a very underwhelming feel. The worst part is the attack at the World cup where it is almost impossible to feel any sense of danger because the scene is over before it even began (and the over-the-top DE don't help either). The biggest problem however is the characters: Dumbledore is agitated and angry far too often, Karkaroff, Krum and Fleur have no development, Barty Crouch Jr went from being a tragic, complex and dark character to being a Caricature, Crouch Sr was unbelievably cartoonish as well. In fact pretty much all the characters introduced in the film have zero development- most are just glorified extras. I can understand it though, Newell wanted to make a "bollywood extravaganza" and I can see that. The amount of energy, everything is overblown and over-the-top, plenty of overacting. It isn't a bad film its very entertaining and enjoyable but to me it doesn't hold a candle to the book.

    OOTP feels very incomplete, the story doesn't really have any closure. The prophecy was poorly handled as well, while in the book the story transcended into deeper territory as each page turned in the film we were given half of it (which is never explained anyway and we don't even know why Voldemort would risk exposure by sending his followers in the Ministry to get it). Also the rushed nature of the film really diminishes plenty of scenes: the emotional character moments have very little room to breath and some of the big, cinematic events pass by without notice (like Dumbledore's escape from Hogwarts). Furthermore there was a lot of amateurish approaches towards the film: the editing is choppy and causes continuity problems, Hoopers score is very underwhelming, few tracks actually match the darker tone of the movie, the lack of themes really deteriorate any connection and continuity in the film, the cinematography is fairly bland as well most of it is basic, simple and uninspired shots even the sets are set up like a TV film. However the film does have its positive attributes: the characters are extremely well handled (even though some have very little screentime), the climax at the Ministry was very well done, the Ministrys slander of Harry and his loneliness were also very good as well.

    HBP was a huge improvement over both previous instalments it is quite impressive how much Yates improved as a film-maker. The movie looked very artistic (the entire climax resembled a painting) the almost black and white look of the cave was very effective as was the heavily muted appearance of the memory scenes. The art direction was wonderful (however all the sets in the films have been great), Hoopers score was very nice as well there were themes, the emotional music had a much greater impact. The acting was also at its best all round and I think the plot was well done overall as well. The one problem I have is that I think the ending was too anticlimactic, I don't think that a fully-fledged battle was needed but even a handful of duels during the chase would have had a greater cinematic effect. Either way it is still my favourite to date and I have hope for Deathly Hallows.
    Post edited by timeless on
  • blackvenomblackvenom Posts: 3,257
    ^I agree so much.

    I have faith in Yates. I mean, he improved so much and IMO he created my favourite HP film (HBP). With the shooting of a 5-hour DH film, split in two parts, which means a much much better script, that includes all important things, and with the amazing work of Stuart Craig (art direction), Eduardo Serra (twice Oscar-nominated Director of Photography) and Alexandre Desplat (3-times Oscar nominated composer), as well as the much improved acting, visual effects and the much richer scripts, both DH films may turn out to be compelling and absolutely breathtaking.
    We just have to wait and see.
  • thisishogwartsthisishogwarts Posts: 1,758 ✭✭
    I have faith in Yates. I loved HBP so much, and even though OoTP wasen't as good as I thought it was going to be, it was so much better then GoF, which imo is the weakest of the HP after Columbus left.

    DH is going to be epic, and since its being split into 2 films, more stuff for HP fans and more stuff for movie fans to see is always good.
  • timelesstimeless Posts: 72
    One thing I will say about DH is while they may be pulling out "all stops" not every action scenes needs to be treated like a huge set piece. Moments like the attack on the wedding and the cafe fight don't need any massive duels or loads of visual effects and we certainly don't need some kind of fight after the Silver Doe nor does it need to be on an epic scale with Harry swimming around in a huge underwater environment (ala GOF). I think a minimalistic, smaller scale would work much better. Now the 7 Potters is a scene where they can go all out with spells colliding and exploding in mid-air, the flying Death Eaters zooming around, loads of busy and chaotic shots. The Ministry Infiltration is another one sure they can have people running, Dementors swooping down and chasing, duels in the ministry atrium and all that. I just think too many large, gnarly battles will really lesser the impact of the final battle at Hogwarts.
  • MattCatMattCat Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    You were wrong, Machine. An ear was lost.

    Sorcery performed. Rise thread, rise!
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