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Shell Cottage

PumpkinjuicePumpkinjuice Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited October 2011 in General
had stiff direction. The conversation about wands is drawn out and does not feel dramatic due to wooden acting and line delivery from Dan, long pauses and boring, static shots.
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Comments

  • NickNick Posts: 20,484 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • AllStar87AllStar87 Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭
    Yeah. The 1st time I saw this seen in the theatre I loved it because I was still in shock that I was watching the last movie. But after the next 5, I was so bored and wanted it to move on.
  • NickNick Posts: 20,484 ✭✭✭✭✭
    this will only lead to more fighting just like the goblet of fire vs half blood prince discussion. sigh...........
  • RyGuyRyGuy Posts: 7,791 mod
    I can't help but agree. The discussion was needed with Ollivander but it lacked a lot of energy. The conversation with Griphook was good just because it was tense. Ollivander and Harry talking about wands actually had me thinking for once in my life "Come onnnnnn! get on with it!" haha

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  • RyGuyRyGuy Posts: 7,791 mod
    this will only lead to more fighting just like the goblet of fire vs half blood prince discussion. sigh...........
    It will only go that way if people start attacking others. Hopefully some of the people on here can have a legitimate mature for a change. I just vented about this in the negative thread. lol

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  • MattCatMattCat Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    I didn’t mind the scenes so much but I wish they had been broken up by a few nice moments like Bill talking to Harry about Goblins, Ron trying to tend to Hermione's injury or Lupin announcing the birth of Teddy.
  • TheDoctorTheDoctor Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's interesting to think how it may have been edited differently if Part 2 had began with Malfoy Manor.
  • decarusdecarus Posts: 5,953 ✭✭✭
    I think they could have had more of the trio talking a bit. I agree that the Ollivander part was not quite as tense as it could have been. The Griphook part was good.
  • Martin1Martin1 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I imagine it was partly difficult to put this on screen. On screen, we can't really see Harry's thoughts, contemplating whether to get the elder wand or focus on horcruxes. And ending Part 1 with Voldemort stealing the elder wand made that scenario impossible. I wouldn't change part 1's ending for anything, that's perfect.

    I thought the conversation with Griphook was good, especially Warrick Davis. Griphook came off perfectly and exactly as I imagined.
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  • BlackCatScottBlackCatScott Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭
    The chat between Harry/Griphook then Ollivander was really dragged out. It did get boring.
  • decarusdecarus Posts: 5,953 ✭✭✭
    Yeah i think that since it was still the same day maybe they could have treated it as if it were the same day. And ask Hermione if she is alright and talk a bit about what to do next. Talk a bit about Harry's thoughts. It isn't a terrible beginning though. Rushed in some ways, but it could have been worse.

    I agree with showing things instead of telling them, but there are times when you tell things by having characters have conversations that they need to have anyways for character development and i think that they could have had more trio communication in this part instead of just with Griphook and Ollivander. Though like i said i thought the Griphook scene was good.
  • Martin1Martin1 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have a feeling it will be a lot better when it's put together as one film. It won't be the opening, it'll be right there in the middle, which is what this felt like.
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  • RyGuyRyGuy Posts: 7,791 mod
    Yeah i think that since it was still the same day maybe they could have treated it as if it were the same day. And ask Hermione if she is alright and talk a bit about what to do next. Talk a bit about Harry's thoughts. It isn't a terrible beginning though. Rushed in some ways, but it could have been worse.

    I agree with showing things instead of telling them, but there are times when you tell things by having characters have conversations that they need to have anyways for character development and i think that they could have had more trio communication in this part instead of just with Griphook and Ollivander. Though like i said i thought the Griphook scene was good.
    I think that would have been great to show more about Hermione's torture and ask if she's okay. We got the hair scene but it was only a few seconds. I would have really loved to see Ron comfort Hermione about it. Yeah Im gonna have to agree on your second point too. Its really a two way street with the Ollivander scene. You could either have a dramatic conversation with all this build up to breaking into Gringotts, but on the other hand it was a tad bit boring. We could have also got a scene with a lot of moving going on too which would be somewhat distracting to the dialogue.

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  • RyGuyRyGuy Posts: 7,791 mod
    I have a feeling it will be a lot better when it's put together as one film. It won't be the opening, it'll be right there in the middle, which is what this felt like.
    You know that is an excellent point! I think pacing wise it would fit well right after the Manor scene and Dobby. All the build up before the Battle of Hogwarts.

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  • NumberEightNumberEight Posts: 1,574 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    had stiff direction. The conversation about wands is drawn out and does not feel dramatic due to wooden acting and line delivery from Dan, long pauses and boring, static shots.
    I agree completely. It's far too rushed for my tastes and I hated seeing it because of this. I don't care that the entire story is split into two movies: you remind audiences what the fuck they saw months ago. How many people in the audience even remembered seeing a sliver of hair fall on Hermione? I didn't even remember until I thought of the book.
    Post edited by NumberEight on
    Pottermore username: DustBlade76

    So Crucify the ego, before it's far too late, to leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical. And you will come to find that we are all one mind, capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable.
  • decarusdecarus Posts: 5,953 ✭✭✭
    I think the films need to be cohesive within themselves. And even if the films were put together i think that the lack of trio discussion would seem even more glaring in light of what had just happened. I mean Hermione almost died.
  • BraveheartBraveheart Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭✭
    It's strange because while usually we complain about how Part 2 moves too fast, that is definitely one section which doesn't move fast enough. It's as if Yates told them to pause for ten seconds between every single line. Too many long silences made what should have been a tense build up fall flat. The Ollivander conversation was actually edited better on the Part 1 DVD than in the final film - too many long unnecessary pauses in the movie.

    Another problem, which is ironic given that it's the only dragging part of the movie, is that it's too choppy. Like faaaar too choppy. We see Harry at Dobby's grave, next shot he's wearing completely different clothes, because somebody thought it would be clever to delete the Luna scene and move a nice shot from there to earlier in the movie. Nice of them not to bother thinking about the change of clothes but then Harry did change clothes while sleeping in OOTP. Then there was the jarring placement of Hermione showing the others the hair. I get the feeling this was meant to be at the start when we first see Ron and Hermione at the table, but again it was cut and pasted between two scenes which made it feel very disjointed.

    I do wonder though how much more successful this portion of the movie might have been if Malfoy Manor had been in Part 2. Part of the reason it does feel disjointed is because this part of the movie acts as if Malfoy Manor was actually in Part 2, which of course it was for a while, but when they made the change they really needed to smooth over the cracks which appeared as a result. I think it would definitely make Part 2 flow better to have Malfoy Manor there, especially given how essential it is to the wand plot, and yet I wonder how Part 1 would have fared without Malfoy Manor at the end. Hmmm....
  • MattCatMattCat Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    It seems that the split was going to cause some level of weakness between the transition of films; keeping Malfoy Manor in Part II would’ve given Part I a very lacking ending but without it Part II’s beginning feels very dry.
    Post edited by MattCat on
  • BraveheartBraveheart Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭✭
    I think the films need to be cohesive within themselves. And even if the films were put together i think that the lack of trio discussion would seem even more glaring in light of what had just happened. I mean Hermione almost died.
    This. I've heard this defence that the movies are supposed to be seen as a whole, but that just doesn't stand up. Yates and EVERYONE involved in the movies has stated constantly that the movies are not the same movie - they are two separate movies and should be viewed thus. Either fans conveniently forget this fact when talking about the movie or they actually think they know more about the movie than the bloody director himself!! If Yates says it is two movies, then folks, it's two movies. Your arguments to the contrary do not bear up when the director and his entire cast and crew contradict you.

    Of course, you may think they are suppposed to be one movie because lots of stuff isn't explained and they don't have distinctive climaxes and openings. This is something else entirely. This just means that those parts of them are badly paced.
  • BraveheartBraveheart Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭✭
    It seems that the split was going to cause some level of weakness between the transition of films; keeping Malfoy Manor in Part II would’ve given Part I a very lacking ending but without it Part II’s beginning feels very dry.
    The solution would have been to make the Snatcher Chase more climactic. They could for instance, as was thought to be the case even after Test Screenings, have made the Snatcher chase an extension of the attack on Lovegood's house. That would have given a more satisfying action climax and had a strong opening for Part 2 with Malfoy Manor.
  • Martin1Martin1 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭
    had stiff direction. The conversation about wands is drawn out and does not feel dramatic due to wooden acting and line delivery from Dan, long pauses and boring, static shots.

    I agree completely. It's far too rushed for my tastes and I hated seeing it because of this. I don't care that the entire story is split into two movies: you remind audiences what the fuck they saw months ago. How many people in the audience even remembered seeing a sliver of hair fall on Hermione? I didn't even remember until I thought of the book.
    I disagree with that simply because it is one movie. As one, it's going to be stupid to have the hair fall on Hermione then be like: GUYS, remember this hair that fell on me? Well, I'm like pretty sure it belongs to bellatrix! Let's try it out! :D

    Yeah, that I disagree with.
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  • decarusdecarus Posts: 5,953 ✭✭✭
    I do think that them switching the split point so late in the game is the cause of a lot of the issues as well. It makes the end of Part 1 feel off, rushed, as well as the beginning of Part 2 feeling choppy. I really think they needed to figure out the split point before they started filming.

    They probably did intend to start with Hermione holding the hair. I assume this is the cut scene at shell cottage.
  • Martin1Martin1 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It seems that the split was going to cause some level of weakness between the transition of films; keeping Malfoy Manor in Part II would’ve given Part I a very lacking ending but without it Part II’s beginning feels very dry.


    The solution would have been to make the Snatcher Chase more climactic. They could for instance, as was thought to be the case even after Test Screenings, have made the Snatcher chase an extension of the attack on Lovegood's house. That would have given a more satisfying action climax and had a strong opening for Part 2 with Malfoy Manor.
    I prefer having DH1 with the better ending than DH2 with the better opening, tbh. If it ended on them being caught, I really don't think I would have felt good about it. Oh well, I'm jut waiting for 11/11/11 to watch it as one where all these problems are gone.
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  • BraveheartBraveheart Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭✭
    had stiff direction. The conversation about wands is drawn out and does not feel dramatic due to wooden acting and line delivery from Dan, long pauses and boring, static shots.

    I agree completely. It's far too rushed for my tastes and I hated seeing it because of this. I don't care that the entire story is split into two movies: you remind audiences what the fuck they saw months ago. How many people in the audience even remembered seeing a sliver of hair fall on Hermione? I didn't even remember until I thought of the book.


    I disagree with that simply because it is one movie. As one, it's going to be stupid to have the hair fall on Hermione then be like: GUYS, remember this hair that fell on me? Well, I'm like pretty sure it belongs to bellatrix! Let's try it out! :D

    Yeah, that I disagree with.
    Yeah only it's not one movie. It's two. Unless you know better than Yates, Heyman, Baron, the whole of WB, the entire cast and crew....hmmm.
  • TheDoctorTheDoctor Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    It seems that the split was going to cause some level of weakness between the transition of films; keeping Malfoy Manor in Part II would’ve given Part I a very lacking ending but without it Part II’s beginning feels very dry.


    The solution would have been to make the Snatcher Chase more climactic. They could for instance, as was thought to be the case even after Test Screenings, have made the Snatcher chase an extension of the attack on Lovegood's house. That would have given a more satisfying action climax and had a strong opening for Part 2 with Malfoy Manor.
    I actually was just about to say this, that to move Malfoy Manor to the beginning of Part 2 they would've had to make the Lovegood attack/Snatcher chase much more intense and climatic. The Malfoy Manor that we got may have made for a better opening for Part 2 than a climax for Part 1, but then Dobby's death would've been weird at the beginning of Part 2. I prefer it the way it is, I just wish Malfoy Manor was much more ramped up to make for a much more intense climax for Part 1.
    Post edited by TheDoctor on
  • aaronaaron Posts: 20,918 mod
    Shell Cottage was beautiful. But the three dialogue scenes in a row did seem really boring. I would've liked to see a lot more beauty and natural sweeping filming, etc.
    imageimageimage
  • Martin1Martin1 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭
    had stiff direction. The conversation about wands is drawn out and does not feel dramatic due to wooden acting and line delivery from Dan, long pauses and boring, static shots.

    I agree completely. It's far too rushed for my tastes and I hated seeing it because of this. I don't care that the entire story is split into two movies: you remind audiences what the fuck they saw months ago. How many people in the audience even remembered seeing a sliver of hair fall on Hermione? I didn't even remember until I thought of the book.


    I disagree with that simply because it is one movie. As one, it's going to be stupid to have the hair fall on Hermione then be like: GUYS, remember this hair that fell on me? Well, I'm like pretty sure it belongs to bellatrix! Let's try it out! :D

    Yeah, that I disagree with.


    Yeah only it's not one movie. It's two. Unless you know better than Yates, Heyman, Baron, the whole of WB, the entire cast and crew....hmmm.
    Did I say I knew better? No. I'm fine with how it is. It's one movie split into two parts. If you didn't see Part 1 before seeing Part 2, then that's too bad. It's like cutting right into the middle of any movie: you'd be hard pressed to understand.
    image
  • decarusdecarus Posts: 5,953 ✭✭✭
    The solution would have been to make the Snatcher Chase more climactic. They could for instance, as was thought to be the case even after Test Screenings, have made the Snatcher chase an extension of the attack on Lovegood's house. That would have given a more satisfying action climax and had a strong opening for Part 2 with Malfoy Manor.
    I agree. They created the chase to be the climax and then end after the capture and with Voldemort taking the elder wand. I really think with that as the end goal the films could have been better. And it would have created a more intense moment at the beginning of Part 1 so the quite moment at Shell Cottage would have felt belt. I still think they should have had a trio conversation there as well.
  • aaronaaron Posts: 20,918 mod
    The solution would have been to make the Snatcher Chase more climactic. They could for instance, as was thought to be the case even after Test Screenings, have made the Snatcher chase an extension of the attack on Lovegood's house. That would have given a more satisfying action climax and had a strong opening for Part 2 with Malfoy Manor.


    I agree. They created the chase to be the climax and then end after the capture and with Voldemort taking the elder wand. I really think with that as the end goal the films could have been better. And it would have created a more intense moment at the beginning of Part 1 so the quite moment at Shell Cottage would have felt belt. I still think they should have had a trio conversation there as well.
    It could have gone either way. I kind of agree, but at the same time, the cliffhanger aspect would not have gone over well whatsoever.
    imageimageimage
  • decarusdecarus Posts: 5,953 ✭✭✭
    It is two films because they are not going to flow together well i think. You can almost see Part 2 beginning with Harry be brought to the gates of Malfoy Manor.
  • decarusdecarus Posts: 5,953 ✭✭✭
    It could have gone either way. I kind of agree, but at the same time, the cliffhanger aspect would not have gone over well whatsoever.
    It may not have, but i still think that what they did wasn't that great. The end of Part 1 is it's weakness so i would think that their capture would have been a better ending. The Dobby humor and the lack of reaction to Hermione screaming and the cheesy lines from Dobby as they were disapparating sort of ruined the end of DH1 for me. It is a much better film then Part 2, but still if all of that had been at the beginning of Part 1 maybe it wouldn't have bothered me as much because i wouldn't have been left with such a bad taste from that cheesiness.
  • aaronaaron Posts: 20,918 mod
    It could have gone either way. I kind of agree, but at the same time, the cliffhanger aspect would not have gone over well whatsoever.


    It may not have, but i still think that what they did wasn't that great. The end of Part 1 is it's weakness so i would think that their capture would have been a better ending. The Dobby humor and the lack of reaction to Hermione screaming and the cheesy lines from Dobby as they were disapparating sort of ruined the end of DH1 for me. It is a much better film then Part 2, but still if all of that had been at the beginning of Part 1 maybe it wouldn't have bothered me as much because i wouldn't have been left with such a bad taste from that cheesiness.
    Well hey that could be attributed towards the filmmakers for executing the ending badly. The ending could have worked very strongly if they had made Malfoy Manor darker and more action-packed, Dobby's death more emotional, and added a little bit to the end of Shell Cottage to show Harry choosing Horcruxes over Hallows and realizing his determination to end the war and destroy Voldemort.
    imageimageimage
  • NumberEightNumberEight Posts: 1,574 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree completely. It's far too rushed for my tastes and I hated seeing it because of this. I don't care that the entire story is split into two movies: you remind audiences what the fuck they saw months ago. How many people in the audience even remembered seeing a sliver of hair fall on Hermione? I didn't even remember until I thought of the book.


    I disagree with that simply because it is one movie. As one, it's going to be stupid to have the hair fall on Hermione then be like: GUYS, remember this hair that fell on me? Well, I'm like pretty sure it belongs to bellatrix! Let's try it out! :D

    Yeah, that I disagree with.
    No. Jesus. You show it along with the other quick flashbacks or have it mentioned in passing. The entire Bellatrix impersonation was idiotic to the extreme.
    Pottermore username: DustBlade76

    So Crucify the ego, before it's far too late, to leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical. And you will come to find that we are all one mind, capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable.
  • aaronaaron Posts: 20,918 mod
    Gah. I wish they would just avoid flashbacks whatsoever.
    imageimageimage
  • TheDoctorTheDoctor Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well the whole choosing Horcruxes vs. Hallows is more of an entire film problem rather than something they should of just added to the ending.
  • aaronaaron Posts: 20,918 mod
    Well the whole choosing Horcruxes vs. Hallows is more of an entire film problem rather than something they should of just added to the ending.
    Because the Hallows were ditched in favor of the elder wand, whose lore wasn't properly explained. :|
    imageimageimage
  • NumberEightNumberEight Posts: 1,574 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    Gah. I wish they would just avoid flashbacks whatsoever.
    Well, make a nod to CoS where the three put their hairs in. Have Harry or Ron ask if Hermie put the hair in the vial or whatever she used to drink from.
    Post edited by NumberEight on
    Pottermore username: DustBlade76

    So Crucify the ego, before it's far too late, to leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical. And you will come to find that we are all one mind, capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable.
  • decarusdecarus Posts: 5,953 ✭✭✭
    Well hey that could be attributed towards the filmmakers for executing the ending badly. The ending could have worked very strongly if they had made Malfoy Manor darker and more action-packed, Dobby's death more emotional, and added a little bit to the end of Shell Cottage to show Harry choosing Horcruxes over Hallows and realizing his determination to end the war and destroy Voldemort.
    I agree with that. The end could have just been done better and that would have helped as well. I just think as it is, the end is not a good ending. I was always in favor of ending after the capture and with Voldemort and the elder wand rather then where they ended because i wanted Part 2 to be a good movie which it wasn't. Though the beginning was the least of it's issues.
  • Martin1Martin1 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well hey that could be attributed towards the filmmakers for executing the ending badly. The ending could have worked very strongly if they had made Malfoy Manor darker and more action-packed, Dobby's death more emotional, and added a little bit to the end of Shell Cottage to show Harry choosing Horcruxes over Hallows and realizing his determination to end the war and destroy Voldemort.


    I agree with that. The end could have just been done better and that would have helped as well. I just think as it is, the end is not a good ending. I was always in favor of ending after the capture and with Voldemort and the elder wand rather then where they ended because i wanted Part 2 to be a good movie which it wasn't. Though the beginning was the least of it's issues.
    You don't think Part 2 was a good movie? Really?!
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  • decarusdecarus Posts: 5,953 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    No. I don't. But we are talking about Shell Cottage here.

    People just get mad. So it's alright.
    Post edited by decarus on
  • Martin1Martin1 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No. I don't. But we are talking about Shell Cottage here.

    People just get mad. So it's alright.
    But I'm very curious as to why though.
    image
  • RichardRichard Posts: 48,579 mod
    had stiff direction. The conversation about wands is drawn out and does not feel dramatic due to wooden acting and line delivery from Dan, long pauses and boring, static shots.
    The only boring part of DH2
  • decarusdecarus Posts: 5,953 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    But I'm very curious as to why though.
    Can i ask why you like it?
  • yonythemoonyyonythemoony Posts: 5,427 ✭✭✭✭✭


    At 4:35 Barron talks about the Malfoy Manor scene being actually the end of Part 1, not the trio being caught by the Snatchers, and ending the film with a shot of Harry's scar. It's like that on the script. And he mentions that because they have filmed both films back to back, they could have ended Part 1 where they could want to.



    But here, Heyman mentions why Part 1 ended with Dobby's death because this way, the film had a emotional climax. Besides, like Barron said, the film felt much more complete.

    I think that for Part 2 they should have got more, the scene with Harry and Luna at Dobby's grave, or the funeral how it was written in the book, and showing Ollivander leaving too, and thanking Luna for helping him at Malfoy Manor.
  • decarusdecarus Posts: 5,953 ✭✭✭
    I disagree that Part 1 was better the way it ended, but it is unknowable. We will never know how it would have felt for them to end with a more cliffhanger ending.
  • BraveheartBraveheart Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭✭
    Did I say I knew better? No. I'm fine with how it is. It's one movie split into two parts. If you didn't see Part 1 before seeing Part 2, then that's too bad. It's like cutting right into the middle of any movie: you'd be hard pressed to understand.
    Except that again, it is not one movie but two. If you choose to view it as such so you can ignore the pacing flaws, that's fine. You can bleat all you want about it being one movie, but when everyone in the cast and crew has stated quite clearly on many occasions that it is two separate movies with their own distinct feel and subplots, you don't really have much of a case for saying it's supposed to be viewed as one movie at all. It is therefore wrong to say that it is one movie split into two parts. It is one story split into two movies.
  • Pensieve SeekerPensieve Seeker Posts: 2,916 ✭✭✭✭
    Personally, I'm glad DH 1 ended with Voldemort getting the Elder Wand because that is what I predicted what would happen on another board back in Oct '09.
    Alcohol and calculus don't mix. Never drink and derive.

    Pottermore user name: SilverQuest212
  • decarusdecarus Posts: 5,953 ✭✭✭
    I really do think that the pacing issues do not go away even if you consider it all one film.

    Also the film was always going to end with the elder wand. It is just that scene was moved up until right after the capture or right after the arrival at malfoy manor instead of pushed back to after Dobby's death.
  • Pensieve SeekerPensieve Seeker Posts: 2,916 ✭✭✭✭
    I really do think that the pacing issues do not go away even if you consider it all one film.

    Also the film was always going to end with the elder wand. It is just that scene was moved up until right after the capture or right after the arrival at malfoy manor instead of pushed back to after Dobby's death.
    Are you stating that as a fact or as speculation?

    Alcohol and calculus don't mix. Never drink and derive.

    Pottermore user name: SilverQuest212
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